Jim Reid of The Jesus and Mary Chain unchained
Jeffrey Goldman / the Bruin
04.1986
04.1986
They've created a stir in England like no band has done since the Sex Pistols exploded on the music scene in 1976. Their debut LP, Psychocandy, has been hailed by some as one of the finest albums ever released. Their very name provokes outrage wherever it is heard. They've been banned by the BBC, and their live shows, known to last little more than thirty minutes, have incited what the British press has termed "riots." Their music is often described as a cross between the simple pop melodies of such '60s girl groups as the Shangri-Las and the white noise of the Velvet Underground: part cotton candy and part chainsaw. Who are these controversial rebel rousers, these second coming of punk rock gods? The Jesus and Mary Chain, that's who.
While on their second stopover in Los Angeles in less than give months, the Bruin got a chance to talk to Jim Reid, the lead vocalist and second guitarist of this provocative band, who along with his brother and lead guitarist William, and bassist Douglas Hart, came out of the impoverished Scottish city of Glasgow just over a year ago to set the rock and roll world on fire. Speaking with a thick Scottish accent and a timid voice, nineteen year old Jim Reid came off not as the rock and roll upstart in the tradition of Johnny Rotten or a Jim Morrison, but as a shy teenage musician inadvertently caught up in a whirlwind of hype, publicity and acclaim, of myths and truths, that so often create, and even destroy, rock and roll legends.
Bruin: How did growing up in Glasgow affect you?
Reid: It affected me in a kind of strange way because the big thing in Glasgow is unemployment - nobody can get a job. But me and William, we're the kind of people who don't want a job. We try to stay clear of work. I mean, why work in a tedious little factory job if you can avoid it? So we spent about five years unemployed. So after about five years, realizing that we were going nowhere and we had to do something, we thought, 'right now, let's get up and do it.' So we started The Jesus and Mary Chain. Douglas was just a friend, never played bass in his life. Gave him a bass guitar, and a month later we were playing our first gig.
Bruin: Had you and your brother been playing guitar for awhile?
Reid: I've been playing guitar for about four years now, and I still can't play. I still only know about three chords, it's ridiculous! I've not got the patience to keep practicing. William has actually gotten better. He's been playing guitar for about four or five years now. He's a fairly competent guitarist. I can play guitar well enough to write songs, but I could never get into another group. No other group would accept me as a guitarist, then again, no other group would accept Douglas as our bassist. Douglas is honestly the worst bass player I've ever seen in my life!
Bruin: How do you account for your skill at writing pop tunes?
Reid: It takes talent, I don't want to say it takes skill. Somebody who paints a picture is talented, but somebody who paints a wall is skilled. I would say that we are talented, not skilled.
Bruin: Does the fact that you only know a few chords help to simplify your songwriting, enabling you to come up with catchy pop melodies?
Reid: Yeah, I would say so. Then again, if I knew 25 chords, I'd probably still only use the same ones to write. Those are the chords I feel comfortable with. Those are the chords that bring more out in me. William's quite skilled at the guitar and William does just as much of the songwriting as I do, but the songs still remain fairly basic and simple.
Bruin: What do you think of the music scene in England?
Reid: It's pretty dull, but I don't want to get too pessimistic. There are some groups about that are worthwhile, that do things that are acceptable. In fact there are a few groups that I actually buy their records. I like the Cocteau Twins, Echo and the Bunnymen, Nick Cave... I've always like the Birthday Party. There are a few things going on about, but on the whole I think it's shit.
Bruin: What about in America?
Reid: I think it's pretty much the same, it's not any worse, it's not any better. You've got The Swans, Sonic Youth... American bands are pretty similar musically.
Bruin: What about your reception in Britain as compared to in America?
Reid: Well, over here people have heard about us long before they've heard us. Over here we've got something to live up to. We're coming with a reputation. I don't really like that, I'd rather people would just come and see us without a clue as to what to expect. I hate having to live up to this freak show, Jesus and Mary Chain image we've been given. It's not nice, I don't like it at all. It was like that a bit in Britain as well. Initially a lot of people were coming to the shows because they'd read a review of the last gig and it was supposed to be quite wild, so they were coming to see what it was like. I mean, we've always been treated like some kind of circus act: 'The Jesus and Mary Chain freak show's in town.' It's not really like that, it's just a rock and roll show.
Bruin: But it did get you quite a bit of publicity.
Reid: It got us the publicity, but you've got to remember if you get that kind of publicity and you don't live up to what's being said a lot of people will be disappointed. We're getting that a bit over here. A lot of people are resenting the kind of press we've gotten in Britain. They think, 'Well, they're not that good.' We've been built up and when they see that we're just a group, that, live anyway, we're not terribly outrageous, or that much different from any other group, I think a lot of people are disappointed.
Bruin: How did this wild image get started?
Reid: Well, with the first group we were ever in, the early show were quite wild. I mean, you're out there onstage, you've never been in a group before, you've got all these people coming to see you, you've been drinking a bit, you're totally excited and so you go absolutely mad onstage. And that gets written about and it spreads and it gets exaggereated. But now we're a bit more used to being in a group and we've done it so many times that we're trying to enjoy it in a more sensible kind of way. The early gigs were absolutely insane, it was like an explosion. We'd walk onstage and just explode. We could have kept that up but the more it would've gone on, the more it would've become some kind of 'show.' We wouldn't really have been feeling it. We'd have been hitting our guitars because that's what we were supposed to be doing. There was a certain temptation to keep that up for the sake of it because that was our image, but I would've felt stupid, I'd have felt false. If ever I've broken my guitar, if ever I've jumped on it, if ever I've kicked an amp, it was just sheer excitement.
Bruin: What about the rumors of riots at the concerts?
Reid: The most severe fight happened right in the middle of the crowd somewhere, and for some reason, the people who were fighting went over by the mixing desk and caused two thousand pounds worth of damage. It was ridiculous. It was not a riot. I saw it, I was there. There was no riot, it was just a bunch of fools getting carried away with themselves. It sounds bad in print, when you say, ' a riot - two thousand pounds worth of damage.' But that's only one thing! That's a mixing desk! You can be walking by with a cup of tea and bump against it and it falls. I mean, that's not a riot!
Bruin: And the rumors just kept spreading from that point on?
Reid: You pick up the music papers or a weekly and you see there was a riot at your show, so the next time you play you walk onstage and you see there's five hundred people who never would've come to see The Jesus and Mary Chain who have come for a fight! They're standing there with weapons and things like that. They don't give a fuck about music, they've just read that this is what you're supposed to do - if you want a riot, you come and see The Jesus and Mary Chain. There's only been two incidents that have been called riots. The first one was a fight, the second one was probably quite close to a real riot, but it was purely because of the press we had gotten after the first fight.
Bruin: Do the short sets have anything to do with the riots?
Reid: Personally, I don't think so. The short sets are something, again, that have been totally exaggerated. People have gotten a bit hysterical about it. We've only ever played short sets a few times. We never planned to make an issue of it, we never planned on making a big deal out of it. It was just something we did without even thinking about it. When we did play, I can never tell when we walk odd-stage how long we've been on. We've played for an hour before, we've played for fifteen minutes before. I just can't tell. I go on, play, and when it feels right to leave, we leave. If somebody's paying a pound to get in and see us, I don't feel as if I owe them anything at all. If I feel like ten minutes, then I'll do it. But I've got to admit that if somebody has paid like six quid or twelve dollars, I wouldn't play a twenty minute gig, I would feel a bit guilty about doing that. People say that 45 minutes is a short set, but for The Jesus and Mary Chain that's quite long.
Bruin: Why is that? Does it have to do with the amount of material you have?
Reid: It has nothing to do with the amount of material. I just think that rock and roll shows are too long. An hour and a half is too long for anybody. What Bruce Springsteen does - six hour shows and all that - I don't understand how he can do it, and I don't understand how anybody can be entertained by it. Personally, when I go to see a group, right at about a half an hour, I want to leave - no matter how good the group is.
Bruin: What about influences? People have mentioned the Velvet Underground and such girl groups as the Shangri-Las.
Reid: The Shangri-Las and the Velvet Underground are probably influences, but I'm amazed how everyone's gotten so hysterical about it. You can tell we've been listening to the Velvet Underground, that's true. But I can tell just about what any group has been listening to. Whether you're going to completely emulate the groups you've been listening to or whether you're going to actually add something to them is the difference. Personally I don't think we sound exactly like anybody. We sound like we've been influenced by people, but that's healthy. We don't sound exactly like any group at all, and it really does upset me when people imply that what we are doing has already been done. It has, but not in exactly the same way. Everything's already been done. I mean, when the Stooges first played, they were trying to copy the Doors, but they were the Stooges just like we are The Jesus and Mary Chain. You can say that 'Cut Dead' is very, very Velvets, okay, that's fair enough. But so what? Why shouldn't it be? I like the Velvet Underground, they did influence me. But take 'In A Hole,' for instance, I mean, who does that sound like? It doesn't sound like anybody that I can think of.
Bruin: How did the idea for the extensive use of feedback originate?
Reid: The feedback is something that I think we deserve a bit more credit for. I've never heard anybody using feedback and white noise in that way. Maybe there has been, but I've never heard them. What happened, was that when we started we were looking for some kind of guitar sound, and that appealed to us. The kind of guitar sound we've got on Psychocandy - maybe it's got something to do with noise, but that sounds pleasant to me, that's what I like to hear. There were obvious things, like when we first started we weren't terribly competent at playing the guitars, so you try and disguise it by making a noise if you can't play a chord. But it sounded good, and when eventually we did learn to play a few chords we thought, 'well, fuck it, the noise is there already.' It seemed nice, it seemed pleasant, it was just the right thing for the group.
Bruin: Where do you go from here? What else can you do with the sound?
Reid: I'd like to throw out the white noise/feedback sound because I don't want to become this fucking, 'The Jesus and Mary Chain - the white noise/feedback group.' Psychocandy is Psychocandy. Personally I think that we are good enough songwriters to do other things. I don't want to get choked or strangled by the type of guitar sound we've got at the moment. I'm a bit worried about the next record because we've got so much to live up to.
Bruin: What are some things that you try to avoid, that you hate in a rock and roll band?
Reid: I despise gimmicks. It's that whole show business thing. When rock and roll first started, there was an element of rebellion, but when you look at Ozzy Osbourne on MTV, all the threat, the snarl has been cut out - it's just a complete joke! I like it when that sort of dark, threatening atmosphere comes through. It sounds cliched, and I don't want to sound like an asshole, but if I could watch my parents' reaction to seeing The Jesus and Mary Chain for the first time, I would hope it was complete disgust!
Bruin: What do you see as the threat in The Jesus and Mary Chain?
Reid: I think it's probably the overall sound. It makes you uneasy, it makes you sit up and say, 'God, these men are mad!' Psychocandy has opened up a lot of people's minds. It's fairly difficult to ignore Psychocandy.
While on their second stopover in Los Angeles in less than give months, the Bruin got a chance to talk to Jim Reid, the lead vocalist and second guitarist of this provocative band, who along with his brother and lead guitarist William, and bassist Douglas Hart, came out of the impoverished Scottish city of Glasgow just over a year ago to set the rock and roll world on fire. Speaking with a thick Scottish accent and a timid voice, nineteen year old Jim Reid came off not as the rock and roll upstart in the tradition of Johnny Rotten or a Jim Morrison, but as a shy teenage musician inadvertently caught up in a whirlwind of hype, publicity and acclaim, of myths and truths, that so often create, and even destroy, rock and roll legends.
Bruin: How did growing up in Glasgow affect you?
Reid: It affected me in a kind of strange way because the big thing in Glasgow is unemployment - nobody can get a job. But me and William, we're the kind of people who don't want a job. We try to stay clear of work. I mean, why work in a tedious little factory job if you can avoid it? So we spent about five years unemployed. So after about five years, realizing that we were going nowhere and we had to do something, we thought, 'right now, let's get up and do it.' So we started The Jesus and Mary Chain. Douglas was just a friend, never played bass in his life. Gave him a bass guitar, and a month later we were playing our first gig.
Bruin: Had you and your brother been playing guitar for awhile?
Reid: I've been playing guitar for about four years now, and I still can't play. I still only know about three chords, it's ridiculous! I've not got the patience to keep practicing. William has actually gotten better. He's been playing guitar for about four or five years now. He's a fairly competent guitarist. I can play guitar well enough to write songs, but I could never get into another group. No other group would accept me as a guitarist, then again, no other group would accept Douglas as our bassist. Douglas is honestly the worst bass player I've ever seen in my life!
Bruin: How do you account for your skill at writing pop tunes?
Reid: It takes talent, I don't want to say it takes skill. Somebody who paints a picture is talented, but somebody who paints a wall is skilled. I would say that we are talented, not skilled.
Bruin: Does the fact that you only know a few chords help to simplify your songwriting, enabling you to come up with catchy pop melodies?
Reid: Yeah, I would say so. Then again, if I knew 25 chords, I'd probably still only use the same ones to write. Those are the chords I feel comfortable with. Those are the chords that bring more out in me. William's quite skilled at the guitar and William does just as much of the songwriting as I do, but the songs still remain fairly basic and simple.
Bruin: What do you think of the music scene in England?
Reid: It's pretty dull, but I don't want to get too pessimistic. There are some groups about that are worthwhile, that do things that are acceptable. In fact there are a few groups that I actually buy their records. I like the Cocteau Twins, Echo and the Bunnymen, Nick Cave... I've always like the Birthday Party. There are a few things going on about, but on the whole I think it's shit.
Bruin: What about in America?
Reid: I think it's pretty much the same, it's not any worse, it's not any better. You've got The Swans, Sonic Youth... American bands are pretty similar musically.
Bruin: What about your reception in Britain as compared to in America?
Reid: Well, over here people have heard about us long before they've heard us. Over here we've got something to live up to. We're coming with a reputation. I don't really like that, I'd rather people would just come and see us without a clue as to what to expect. I hate having to live up to this freak show, Jesus and Mary Chain image we've been given. It's not nice, I don't like it at all. It was like that a bit in Britain as well. Initially a lot of people were coming to the shows because they'd read a review of the last gig and it was supposed to be quite wild, so they were coming to see what it was like. I mean, we've always been treated like some kind of circus act: 'The Jesus and Mary Chain freak show's in town.' It's not really like that, it's just a rock and roll show.
Bruin: But it did get you quite a bit of publicity.
Reid: It got us the publicity, but you've got to remember if you get that kind of publicity and you don't live up to what's being said a lot of people will be disappointed. We're getting that a bit over here. A lot of people are resenting the kind of press we've gotten in Britain. They think, 'Well, they're not that good.' We've been built up and when they see that we're just a group, that, live anyway, we're not terribly outrageous, or that much different from any other group, I think a lot of people are disappointed.
Bruin: How did this wild image get started?
Reid: Well, with the first group we were ever in, the early show were quite wild. I mean, you're out there onstage, you've never been in a group before, you've got all these people coming to see you, you've been drinking a bit, you're totally excited and so you go absolutely mad onstage. And that gets written about and it spreads and it gets exaggereated. But now we're a bit more used to being in a group and we've done it so many times that we're trying to enjoy it in a more sensible kind of way. The early gigs were absolutely insane, it was like an explosion. We'd walk onstage and just explode. We could have kept that up but the more it would've gone on, the more it would've become some kind of 'show.' We wouldn't really have been feeling it. We'd have been hitting our guitars because that's what we were supposed to be doing. There was a certain temptation to keep that up for the sake of it because that was our image, but I would've felt stupid, I'd have felt false. If ever I've broken my guitar, if ever I've jumped on it, if ever I've kicked an amp, it was just sheer excitement.
Bruin: What about the rumors of riots at the concerts?
Reid: The most severe fight happened right in the middle of the crowd somewhere, and for some reason, the people who were fighting went over by the mixing desk and caused two thousand pounds worth of damage. It was ridiculous. It was not a riot. I saw it, I was there. There was no riot, it was just a bunch of fools getting carried away with themselves. It sounds bad in print, when you say, ' a riot - two thousand pounds worth of damage.' But that's only one thing! That's a mixing desk! You can be walking by with a cup of tea and bump against it and it falls. I mean, that's not a riot!
Bruin: And the rumors just kept spreading from that point on?
Reid: You pick up the music papers or a weekly and you see there was a riot at your show, so the next time you play you walk onstage and you see there's five hundred people who never would've come to see The Jesus and Mary Chain who have come for a fight! They're standing there with weapons and things like that. They don't give a fuck about music, they've just read that this is what you're supposed to do - if you want a riot, you come and see The Jesus and Mary Chain. There's only been two incidents that have been called riots. The first one was a fight, the second one was probably quite close to a real riot, but it was purely because of the press we had gotten after the first fight.
Bruin: Do the short sets have anything to do with the riots?
Reid: Personally, I don't think so. The short sets are something, again, that have been totally exaggerated. People have gotten a bit hysterical about it. We've only ever played short sets a few times. We never planned to make an issue of it, we never planned on making a big deal out of it. It was just something we did without even thinking about it. When we did play, I can never tell when we walk odd-stage how long we've been on. We've played for an hour before, we've played for fifteen minutes before. I just can't tell. I go on, play, and when it feels right to leave, we leave. If somebody's paying a pound to get in and see us, I don't feel as if I owe them anything at all. If I feel like ten minutes, then I'll do it. But I've got to admit that if somebody has paid like six quid or twelve dollars, I wouldn't play a twenty minute gig, I would feel a bit guilty about doing that. People say that 45 minutes is a short set, but for The Jesus and Mary Chain that's quite long.
Bruin: Why is that? Does it have to do with the amount of material you have?
Reid: It has nothing to do with the amount of material. I just think that rock and roll shows are too long. An hour and a half is too long for anybody. What Bruce Springsteen does - six hour shows and all that - I don't understand how he can do it, and I don't understand how anybody can be entertained by it. Personally, when I go to see a group, right at about a half an hour, I want to leave - no matter how good the group is.
Bruin: What about influences? People have mentioned the Velvet Underground and such girl groups as the Shangri-Las.
Reid: The Shangri-Las and the Velvet Underground are probably influences, but I'm amazed how everyone's gotten so hysterical about it. You can tell we've been listening to the Velvet Underground, that's true. But I can tell just about what any group has been listening to. Whether you're going to completely emulate the groups you've been listening to or whether you're going to actually add something to them is the difference. Personally I don't think we sound exactly like anybody. We sound like we've been influenced by people, but that's healthy. We don't sound exactly like any group at all, and it really does upset me when people imply that what we are doing has already been done. It has, but not in exactly the same way. Everything's already been done. I mean, when the Stooges first played, they were trying to copy the Doors, but they were the Stooges just like we are The Jesus and Mary Chain. You can say that 'Cut Dead' is very, very Velvets, okay, that's fair enough. But so what? Why shouldn't it be? I like the Velvet Underground, they did influence me. But take 'In A Hole,' for instance, I mean, who does that sound like? It doesn't sound like anybody that I can think of.
Bruin: How did the idea for the extensive use of feedback originate?
Reid: The feedback is something that I think we deserve a bit more credit for. I've never heard anybody using feedback and white noise in that way. Maybe there has been, but I've never heard them. What happened, was that when we started we were looking for some kind of guitar sound, and that appealed to us. The kind of guitar sound we've got on Psychocandy - maybe it's got something to do with noise, but that sounds pleasant to me, that's what I like to hear. There were obvious things, like when we first started we weren't terribly competent at playing the guitars, so you try and disguise it by making a noise if you can't play a chord. But it sounded good, and when eventually we did learn to play a few chords we thought, 'well, fuck it, the noise is there already.' It seemed nice, it seemed pleasant, it was just the right thing for the group.
Bruin: Where do you go from here? What else can you do with the sound?
Reid: I'd like to throw out the white noise/feedback sound because I don't want to become this fucking, 'The Jesus and Mary Chain - the white noise/feedback group.' Psychocandy is Psychocandy. Personally I think that we are good enough songwriters to do other things. I don't want to get choked or strangled by the type of guitar sound we've got at the moment. I'm a bit worried about the next record because we've got so much to live up to.
Bruin: What are some things that you try to avoid, that you hate in a rock and roll band?
Reid: I despise gimmicks. It's that whole show business thing. When rock and roll first started, there was an element of rebellion, but when you look at Ozzy Osbourne on MTV, all the threat, the snarl has been cut out - it's just a complete joke! I like it when that sort of dark, threatening atmosphere comes through. It sounds cliched, and I don't want to sound like an asshole, but if I could watch my parents' reaction to seeing The Jesus and Mary Chain for the first time, I would hope it was complete disgust!
Bruin: What do you see as the threat in The Jesus and Mary Chain?
Reid: I think it's probably the overall sound. It makes you uneasy, it makes you sit up and say, 'God, these men are mad!' Psychocandy has opened up a lot of people's minds. It's fairly difficult to ignore Psychocandy.
